oneidabows.net

Re: String Stop

2010-10-16T22:31:20-05:00

The technology of building better and improved String Stops has improved much over the years. However, if anyone remembers or has heard of the problems the built in String Stops caused with the Bear Delta V Bows of the early 1980's, will seriously rethink their use or at least consider a type that will not cause problems for bows such as Oneida Eagle and C.P. Oneida Eagle Bows! The Bear Delta V came and went very quickly due to these and other problems not to mention the weight, even Fred Bear hated the bows. From what I can remember, the two String Stops built into the Bear Delta V Bows had to have the rubber stops constantly changed and they caused premature Bow String and Cable failures which were a nightmare to change. They were also the cause of some hardware problems due to the sudden stop of the Bow String. This was due since the limbs tended to continue their forward motion even though the bow string was stopped by the String Stops. I can see why some folks would want to use them but in my opinion, the cons to their use in a lever bow such as Oneida Eagle and C.P. Oneida Eagle Bows that relies on a Timing System just outweighs the pros! Even after stating these issues, I do believe that if the String Stops were adjusted inward enough to have the bow string barely make contact thus taking out the vibration and deadening the sound of the Bow String upon release, then I can see that there would be some benefit.

Frank

Statistics: Posted by huntsman53 — Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:31 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-10-15T19:00:12-05:00

Great point TSM

Statistics: Posted by JOneida — Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:00 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-10-15T17:11:26-05:00

In my opinion a string stop is for accracy not a noise eliminator the string stop lets the arrow of the string the same every shot to mantain consistancy. if you look back 20 years champ target archer jim mcdonald used them on all his oneida bows.

Statistics: Posted by tree stand man — Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:11 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-10-12T15:00:02-05:00

I just wanted to hit on a few points made here concerning string stops and/or other add-ons (string silencers, sound dampeners, etc.) to bows! Like Joe said, some folks may want some of these items to be standard on C.P. Oneida Eagle Bows while others may not. Besides, anything that adds cost to C.P when building a bow adds cost to the customer and with the extreme competition in building and selling bows and still keeping the prices in a range so that folks will purchase a bow, this is something that most (probably not all) Bow Manufacturers do not want to venture far into! Besides, some folks view purchasing a bow like purchasing a new truck. Some want every option that they can get while others settle for something closer to the standard options to keep from paying such a high price. How many times have you seen someone purchase a bow for $1,000 or more, then spend another $1,000 or more in accessories and add-ons???!!! I know that I have seen this (not done it myself) and many of those items are not needed. If an Archer shoots their' bow enough and becomes confident with both the bow and their ability, some add-ons although they are helpful, just becomes an un-needed extra or bling...bling!

OBwon was right on with his statements concerning extra weight and drag! Anything that adds weight and drag to the bow string, bow limbs or any moving part that effects the acceleration of the arrow upon release, is a detriment. If you must place add-ons on a bow, these should be placed at points with the least amount of travel and has the least amount of resistance. In this, I mean that String Silencers should be placed as close to where the bow string enters the string channel without hindering it from returning to the string channel once you shoot and the bow string is back in the relaxed position. Likewise, Sound Dampeners mounted on limbs, should also be placed in places of least movement and resistance (i.e. on power limbs as close to the riser as possible without hindering the flexing of the power limbs and on outboard limbs (when shooting Oneida Eagle Bows) as close to the hinge as possible without effecting or hindering the outboard limbs from coming back to full draw).

Frank

Statistics: Posted by huntsman53 — Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-07-06T10:13:32-05:00

Quote:

Any velocity loss due to increased string weight was very minimal, string material played a far greater role in speed variations.
An example of the silencer effect from the article - the addition of fur balls which increased the string weight by 40.3 grains decreased arrow velocity from 163.8 fps to 162.1 fps

Great post, but I must take exception to the theory being proclaimed here and the position on the string. Weight of the string has a direct and reactive effect on the velocity produced. 50 grains of string weight across the total length of the string will have the same effect as putting a 50gr. heavier arrow in the bow.............net loss would be around 10 to 14 fps.

Sound to me like this guy was close to position of the fur balls so they may have been speed indiffernet or speed additive. Why? Forces act upon mass closer to the prime mover faster. Throw a feather at a wall 4 feet away with 20 pounds of force and then throw a 2 pound ball with the same force................which gets there quicker? Now we will change the prime mover, lets say 20 lbs of air preasure from a hose held in your hand and the ball and feather in front of it...........which will get to the wall first?

The reason for the string stop is to take the variables out for a more consistent arrow release from the string, the by product is dampening and better use of the energy by stopping string occilation.

On an oneida the key balance point of this would in my view be more toward paralell with the hinge.

Bob

Statistics: Posted by OBwon — Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:13 am

Re: String Stop

2010-07-06T03:26:10-05:00

I've edited the earlier post with additional information.

The article came be found in Traditional Bowhunter Issue Apr/May 2006, String Theory by Philip Schaelling

Statistics: Posted by Gonzo71 — Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:26 am

Re: String Stop

2010-07-04T01:33:03-05:00

Gonzo71 wrote:

Personally I would hate to see a string stop become std equipment on the Oneida's.
From a practical standpoint I've always found silencers work fine.
In respect to loss of speed due to a weight increase in the string I would refer to an article in Traditional Bowhunter a few years back in which they tested a bow using the same arrow, draw length etc with the only variables being string material, as well as each of the strings being 'naked' and then subsiquently fitted with a variety of silencers. If I recall correctly (I will attempt to relocate the article and hopely be able link to it) any velocity loss was incredably minimal could only be described as statisticaly negligable in respect to silencers, string material played a far greater role in speed.
It should also be noted that the fastflite type material tended to be more audible than the B50, which I believe is due to the recovery rate of the material involved.

From an asthetics point of view I love the lack of extraneous gizmos/junk hanging off the bow spoiling the lines and adding extra weight.

Hi folks.
I am getting back into shooting after 20 years and as I use to shoot a screaming eagal people would say it was loud, but I enjoyed the noise it was part of the intense shooting experiance I got from the oneida bows the smooth pull and zoneing out of everything but the arrow and the target.
I did not hear the noise and as far as anyone beside me who jump from the
noise well I zone out any thing they did and if they blew the shot I say I have shot beside 44 mag and if your good with your weapon then no noise will make you lose a shot. That's the fact if you want to test that go to range and get next to a good shot and watch him zone out every thing but the sight and the target. it's call the zone, Hell if my bow made a noise like a 44 mag great!! maybe the other guys will miss and I will win. So if you can make it sound like a 44 sign me up! i don't care about the noise.
but if you do and you want to make your bow shoot with out noise ok
but I like my enjoyment with sound.

Statistics: Posted by whitetiger — Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:33 am

Re: String Stop

2010-07-03T23:55:56-05:00

Personally I would hate to see a string stop become std equipment on the Oneida's.
From a practical standpoint I've always found silencers work fine.
In respect to loss of speed due to a weight increase in the string I would refer to an article in Traditional Bowhunter a few years back in which they tested a bow using the same arrow, draw length etc with the only variables being string material, as well as each of the strings being 'naked' and then subsiquently fitted with a variety of silencers. Issue Apr/May 2006, String Theory by Philip Schaelling

Any velocity loss due to increased string weight was very minimal, string material played a far greater role in speed variations.
An example of the silencer effect from the article - the addition of fur balls which increased the string weight by 40.3 grains decreased arrow velocity from 163.8 fps to 162.1 fps

It should also be noted that the fastflite type material tended to be more audible than the B50, which I believe is due to the recovery rate of the material involved.

From an asthetics point of view I love the lack of extraneous gizmos/junk hanging off the bow spoiling the lines and adding extra weight.

Statistics: Posted by Gonzo71 — Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:55 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-06-07T06:55:52-05:00

I have spoken with CPO about this several times over the years. And although I like the idea that does not mean most will and as a manufacturer they have many other considerations to take into account.

Statistics: Posted by JOneida — Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:55 am

Re: String Stop

2010-06-06T22:57:20-05:00

That's an interesting thought OBwon, I know that Mathews use string stops on the end of there limbs for most of there bows. My Dad and two of my brothers shoot Mathews and it looks really clean. That would be an interesting experiment to try on an older model Oneida.

Statistics: Posted by nomad — Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:57 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-05-23T13:03:41-05:00

Bob have you ever done anything with string stops on the limbs? If you have would be very interested in knowing what you came up with. That is why I said in the riser because of keeping a clean look. Just below the grip is the best place to me. Just my thoughts on them. Please post any info you can for us to learn from.

Statistics: Posted by Bowbum — Sun May 23, 2010 1:03 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-05-23T12:12:38-05:00

Quote:

Since the outboard limbs on Oneidas do a lot of travelling during the shot, any weight added to those limbs should sap a lot of energy otherwise going to the arrow.

This is true and not true.

Like speed balls on the string at define points speed can be gained an lost. Postition is every thing. There are points on the limbs that would negate speed loss and also can be addditive to energy use effeciency.

Good 2nd point, but that is why this is a good place to toss out ideas and understanding. 250FT/3= 83 yards in 1 second. Almost 3 times the average shot of 30 yards. That would put the arrow through the deer in 1/3 of a second at that range. Reaction time on a deer once the brain gets the message is 1/5 of a second then it begins to move.

Most hunting bows are average 250 FPS. I would think at 20 yards the arrow should be through before the message to move is acted upon on a 20 yard shot with the animal unaware with a well placed shot. A plane could crash in the field next to you at the same moment you release the arrow and the deer would still die from the arrow.

Archery is the ultimate way to hunt. We as archers need to be on our equipment and our abilities to a higher degree than any other form of hunting.

Building a better moose trap is my idea of a good time.

Bob

Statistics: Posted by OBwon — Sun May 23, 2010 12:12 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-05-22T22:25:44-05:00

Two points:

Since the outboard limbs on Oneidas do a lot of travelling during the shot, any weight added to those limbs should sap a lot of energy otherwise going to the arrow.

I added another well known brand of riser mounted string stop to my Black Eagle II and then removed it feeling it did no good. But then I don't hear like a deer. If I had access to a suitable instrument to record the sound, I might try it again.

Statistics: Posted by RockAR — Sat May 22, 2010 10:25 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-05-22T18:55:53-05:00

Why does the string stop have to be on the riser, why not on the outboard limb?

Look at horseman bows from Europe and Asia, I have shot these and let me tell you they are very quiet and fast.

Bob

Statistics: Posted by OBwon — Sat May 22, 2010 6:55 pm

Re: String Stop

2010-05-17T09:33:09-05:00

You're correct in saying that not everyone may want this on their bow. I think that is trying to be said is that it is an option that would nice to have. For myself just like to keep a clean smooth look to the bow.

Statistics: Posted by Bowbum — Mon May 17, 2010 9:33 am